Retreat to Peace
Retreat to Peace
Alleviating the Burden of Silent Battles: Frank King's Advocacy for Mental Health and Suicide Prevention
Have you ever wondered about the intersection of comedy and suicide prevention? Well, this episode has been crafted just for you. We've got an extraordinary guest, Frank King, an inspiring comedian and certified QPR (Question, Persuade, Refer) trainer. He's got a riveting tale to tell, one about his own battle with depression and suicide ideation. His journey, coupled with the haunting echoes of his family's history, has led him to dedicate his life to suicide prevention. Be prepared to be enlightened as Frank helps us recognize the signs of depression and suicidal thoughts and how to intervene effectively and respectfully.
But there's more. We also break down some commonly held beliefs about suicide. Frank spills the beans about his experiences, coping mechanisms, and how he manages his suicidal thoughts. He gives us a clear-eyed view of how individuals in crisis often perceive themselves as burdens and how we can reach out to them the right way. We take a detour into the world of youth mental health, exploring how routines, appropriate encouragement, and tailored teaching methods can significantly influence a child's mental wellbeing.
This episode isn't just another conversation. It's a call to action, especially for parents, emphasizing their critical role in their children's mental health. We delve into the importance of establishing routines, advocating for the use of resources like the Suicide Prevention Lifeline, and the role of platforms like Zoom in maintaining connectedness during tough times. We also reflect on the impact of crises on different generations and the urgent need for meaningful conversations around suicide prevention. Take a leap into this enlightening conversation that could be the lifeline someone is desperately seeking.
Please visit us at: http://retreattopeace.com to find out more about the shows you love to listen to, the upcoming retreats we have planned and your favorite merchandise to help support those in need. Also, send us your testimonial of how the show or Catherine has helped you. We would love to share your story on the air.
Hey you, wherever you are in the world right now. Thank you so much for being here with me. We know that we're living in some crazy times and we know that the world is changing. So let's create a bridge as we travel through one another's countries, removing all the labels and coming together as one people, finding our home in one world, and that is why the signature conversation today is so important. Start the conversation, a conversation around suicide Today. I welcome my guest speaker, Frank King. Hi, Frank.
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, everybody around the world.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for being with us today. I know we have a really heavy topic to talk about, but I know that you also have this really unique way of having this conversation. So, with so much gratitude, thank you for being with the show today and for our audience. And I'm just filled with gratitude because I know this is such a necessary conversation for the world. To hear and going into this space is not always easy, or you know, to hear but also to digest.
Speaker 1:So I just really appreciate you spending this time with us today. So if you can, Frank, just share with the audience a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, I am a comedian. Occasionally somebody will say to me tell me about yourself, I go. Well, I'm a comedian and they go no no, not what you do, who you are.
Speaker 2:Well, at the risk of being redundant, I'm a comedian. My mom was funny, my sister's funny. My dad was funny, it's just, it's in my DNA. Tell my first joke in fourth grade, everybody laughed. The teacher was hysterical. I thought you know what? I'm going to be a comedian. In 12th grade they had a talent show. Nobody ever done stand up. I did, I won and I was going to be a comedian. I told my mother, who was big into education she goes, son, you go into college first, I don't care what you do. When you get done, you could be a goat herder for all.
Speaker 2:I care, but you are going to be a goat herder with a college degree. So I went to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, got two degrees actually, and then moved to San Diego with my high school sweetheart and we got married and I did what she wanted me to do. I sold insurance, worked for a firm that her father worked for a different branch but same firm and just by chance there was a branch of the world famous comedy store in San Diego, in La Jolla, actually California. And I went twice to open my to see what the competition was like. And third time I got up and I, middle of my five minutes set, I thought I am home, I'm going to do this for a living, I have no idea how.
Speaker 2:And the day after Christmas 1985, went on the road I had 10 weeks booked, asked my girlfriend if she wanted to come along just for the ride, figuring she'd say no. She said yes. So we gave up our apartment and our jobs and we were on the road together doing standup and comedy clubs for 2,629 nights in a row, nonstop. Seven years opened up for Rosie O'Donnell, ellen DeGeneres, dennis Miller, jeff Fox where they were on white Adam Sandler, kevin James back when they were just comics Seinfeld. And, by the way, the woman that I married is still my wife of 33 years, which is rare for comedians. There's like three comic marriages because comedians aren't easy to live with. She would say it's your life every day, but it's not always a day at the beach, anyway. So I did comedy in the clubs for about 10 years. I did some radio and then I made the jump to the corporate comedy circuit after dinner, after lunch, you know the rubber chicken circuit.
Speaker 2:And then that crashed and burned in the recession and we lost everything in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy and I came very, very close to ending my life. I did not spoil the alert in my life, but I'd always wanted to not just be a funny speaker, but a speaker who was funny, cover something, a topic, a serious topic, teach people something. But I could never quite figure out what in the world I had to teach anybody. And then, after I came that close, began looking at my family history of generational depression and suicide Grandmother died by suicide and mother, founder, great aunt died by suicide and my mother and I found her, I was four years old screamed for days. I thought, you know I could talk about suicide prevention. So I took a class it's called QPR question persuade refer QPR Institutecom 12 hour course and they teach you essentially the signs and symptoms of depression, other mental illnesses and thoughts of suicide, what to do, what not to do, what say, what not to say. Because they believe, I believe it is the most preventable cause of death on the planet If you know what to look and listen for and if you're willing to step out of your comfort zone, into the breach and start the conversation, because I believe in.
Speaker 2:When it comes to mental illness, silence often kills. You hear people say never. He never gave any indication, we had no idea, we had no clue. How come we didn't? Well, you know, you probably are. Probably eight out of 10 people who are suicidal are ambivalent, which tells me they want somebody to intervene. And nine out of 10 in the last seven days leading up to an attempt to give hints verbal, nonverbal, direct, indirect, behavioral so that tells me that nine out of 10 people want somebody to step up and intervene. And so that's what I teach is how to have that difficult conversation, what to look for, and then what to say and do, and then, and more importantly, what not to say, what not to do, because people care. They just, you know, either they are afraid they're going to say the wrong thing or they don't know what to say.
Speaker 2:So that's where I come in, and what I've discovered is, even though most people don't talk about depression and suicide, as my mother would say, in polite company, if you bring it up, you know you bring it up. Almost everybody has a story about themselves, a loved one, a friend. That's what I discovered early on is that you know my job is to go in and be vulnerable, tell my story, because men don't often share things that are emotional, and so see a man on stage telling a story about something that serious and I get a little choked up every time I tell the story, being that vulnerable. I read Bernay Brown's book on vulnerability about halfway through I thought, oh my goodness, that's my superpower. And she also says in there I've said this myself, but not as elegantly as she says that because of my mental illness, major depressive disorder and chronic suicidal ideation, I am so comfortable in my darkness that I can sit comfortably with you and yours, and that's valuable to people with mental illness. People often say to me my friends, depressed, what do I say? Don't say anything, just actively listen, you know, sort of cosign, whatever they're going through.
Speaker 2:So anyway, in 2014, I did my first TED Talk because everybody followed me as a funny guy. So how do you convince them that you could do something serious? My wife said, famously, do a TEDx talk. And I said, famously, what's a TEDx talk? Just by chance, I got an email that week from a TEDx talk in Vancouver, british Columbia, and they said would you want to apply to do a TED? I wrote back I would. So I filled out the application and I got it and I came out on stage at age 56 as depressed and suicidal. And nobody knew my wife, my family, my friends, because people with mental illness often cover it very well. Don't want to burden other people with that kind of thing. But I came out on stage and then since then I've done four more TEDx talks, each one on a mental health topic, a different mental health topic, and now I coach TEDx.
Speaker 2:After doing five of them, people kept coming to me hey, man, help me get a TEDx. My business coach goes Frank, I know you're doing those for free, that's going to stop. So I give the first half an hour for free now, or a little more. You know, more or less my mom was big into give value first, without expectation of return. You know that kind of that zig-ziggler, helping up people get what they want. Maybe in the long run you'll get what you want, sort of thing. So anyway, that's my story and I've been doing since that first TEDx and I've been speaking on suicide prevention, corporation associations, colleges. I'm going to just kind of inquire from Portland, oregon today. It's a youth mental health group and they want to have a Zoom comedy night. And so you know who better than the mental health comedian, somebody who speaks their language, to organize the Zoom?
Speaker 2:comedy night for the young people. So anything we can do to bring the rate down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's amazing and I know, as we're sitting here today having this conversation, that suicide around the globe is at a rate of 30% or there about, which is really a alarming rate in my opinion. I know earlier this year it was down in the 20s. So to ratchet up that significantly, it's pretty significant and I, as you were speaking, I know you kind of ran through this really fast. I know you were four years old and you know you had this experience and you said that you had screamed for days and I can't even imagine you know what that was like for you and you know I'm sorry you had to go, you know, through that experience.
Speaker 1:But you said something really key that you know people are afraid to speak up and you know talk to other people about this if there's some red flags or something that's happening. And I know personally I've had this experience where I was approached by knowledge of someone who was in that space and you know calling out for help and I know personally what I did and you know part of it, as you said, was just listening. But I think that connectedness is so important just to get you know in front of them and help them in whatever capacity of the space that they're sitting in. But if you could for our audience, if our audience is listening right now and there's someone that they know that may be in that space, what are some tools that you can offer to them that would help them connect with that person in their life?
Speaker 2:Well, the what I teach in my keynotes and my trainings, I've got a three hour up to a three hour CE on suicide prevention. As a matter of fact, the state of Washington has mandated that all healthcare providers chiropractors, nurses, doctors, social workers, all have to have three hours of suicide prevention CE or they cannot renew their license, which I think is brilliant.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Dennis, hygienists, same thing. What I teach is signs and symptoms of depression or other mental illness and thoughts of suicide. Because, again, if eight out of 10 are ambivalent, nine out of 10 give hints. That tells me, if we just know what to look for, listen for and are willing to step up, that we can prevent. We can prevent a suicide and you don't. You don't have to be a clinician to prevent a suicide.
Speaker 2:Anybody who takes an interest, and this is not therapy, it's just planting seeds of hope is what we're after. So I tell people well, the signs of depression just a couple of them are withdrawing from social activities, although we don't have many social activities right now, but when we do that kind of thing, people withdraw, they distance themselves or they physically distance themselves by moving. They oftentimes have trouble getting up in the morning but rally in the afternoon, which is deceiving, you know it's either you're worried about them in the morning and then the afternoon they seem, you know, on top of the world. The here's one you can spot on Zoom. They're Zoom casual, as I'm wearing today my button down casual shirt, no tie, no jacket. But then there's, there's um depressed casual, which means oftentimes people who have depression let their personal hygiene go. You know, if you look at them on Zoom, you notice their hair is a little dirty and their clothes aren't as clean as usually.
Speaker 2:Maybe because they're having difficulty getting out of bed to hit the shower and then run a little wash. So that is, that is a. That is a big sign and one you can actually spot over Zoom. Um, what I talk about in my keynote is what not to say, cause people say what do I say at that point? Well, here's what you don't say Pull yourself up by a bootstrap, turn that frown upside down.
Speaker 2:Have you tried fish oil? Here's what you do say, if they in fact admit they are. You know, suffering with living with depression. Okay, I'm here for you and I mean it. I know you're not crazy, lazy or self-absorbed. I know that depression is a mental illness. The good news is, with time and treatment, things will get better. I will take the time, I'll help you get the treatment, and you got to mean that. And then here's the biggie you have to ask them flat out are you having thoughts of suicide? And if you can't ask that question, I would recommend you find somebody who can. It's a difficult question to ask Now. There's an old urban legend that you should never mention the S word suicide in front of somebody who's depressed, and I, as a comedian, I love the reasoning it might give them the idea suicide. What a great idea. Why didn't I think of that? Trust me, it's crossed their mind. Now let's say they do not admit to having thoughts of suicide.
Speaker 2:How would you know? Well, there are signs Talking about death and dying, googling death and dying. Death and dying appears as a theme in their writing, their artwork, their music, getting their affairs in order, giving away prized possessions because they want to make sure they go to the people they're going to go to when they're gone and giving away a pet is the top of the pyramid and giving away prized possessions because they want to make sure that the animal is taken care of. There's a counterintuitive one that I think is very dangerous is that they've been depressed for a long time and now they're happy, happy without any particular reason, and you're happy because, dear goodness, they're finally happy. Well, here's the problem. They may be happy because they've chosen time, place and method and they know the pain is finite.
Speaker 2:A lot of people, I think, are unaware that the majority of suicides, the person doesn't necessarily want to kill themselves, they simply want to end the pain. I just wanted to end the pain when I came so close, and so here's another myth, I believe, if I can be a myth buster for a minute, you hear people say suicides occur, they act, you know, taking your own life. It takes a lot of nerve to take your own life. And the second thing you hear is it's selfish. Well, in the mind of the person who is thinking of suicide because they say well, weren't they thinking about the impact on their friends and family? As a matter of fact, they were, I was. It's, it's, it's something in suicidality called burdensomeness. They honestly believe I honestly believe that that I was a burden and that my wife would be better off without me because I had a million dollar life insurance policy and if I died she would get the million dollars and she would be restored financially. The bankruptcy would be as if it never happened. She'd be brokenhearted, but she wouldn't be broke anymore. So, irrational as it is that the person is a burden, and I'm sure if you asked the people that they were worried about being a burden to, they would go no, no, no, no, no. You're not a burden. No, no, no. But that's that's what's going on in the mind of the person who is kind of playing suicide. They truly believe that they are a burden. Now, let's say they admit to having thoughts of suicide.
Speaker 2:The question comes up what do you do? Well, here's what you say Do you have a plan? And if they have a plan, what is your plan and if it's detailed, you know time, place, method. Your job is to get them on the phone with the suicide prevention the lifeline, or there's for younger people. There's now a text line in the United States. You text the word help or connect to 741-741. And there'd be somebody roughly your age as a young person on the other end, because young people seem to be more forthcoming in text than they are, like, as old people. I'm 63 on the phone, so if the person will pick up, will not pick up the phone and you believe you're actively suicidal, you pick up the phone, you call the suicide prevention lifeline and the volunteer will do their best to get the phone in the hand of the person who is in crisis. Now the question comes up when do you dial 911? If they're an immediate threat to themselves or somebody else, you have no choice but dial 911. Now that's going to buy them generally a three day involuntary detention order and they're going to be in a mental health facility, locked down for three days with no belt or shoe strings, but they'll be alive. Now let's say they have a plan, but it's not particularly detailed. What do you do? And this, by the way, is not in any psychology book. Psychiatrist friend and I came up with this.
Speaker 2:He also lives with chronic suicidal ideation. I say to them well, are you, are you going to kill yourself, just like that? And if they say no, then I say, ok, tell me, why not? Make them give voice to why. You know it's my family, my friends, my pets, whatever it is, make them give voice. And if you ask me oh, frank, you got to kill yourself. You know you have chronic suicidal ideation. It's always on, you know it's always there. Here's the thing about chronic suicidal ideation and they're probably people listening to you and me right now who have this and they may be unaware it has a name. Every time I've spoken except once somebody's come up afterwards after I describe chronic suicidal ideation and said I didn't know it had a name I thought I was some kind of freak. And all Chronic suicidal suicidal ideation means that for people like me, my tribe, the option of suicide is always on the menu as a solution for problems, large and small. It just bubbles up every time there's a problem. I give you an example, when I say small.
Speaker 2:Three years ago my car broke down. I had three thoughts unbidden Get it fixed, buy a new one or I could just kill myself. That's chronic suicidal ideation. And a young woman come up to me after a college show. She said thank you for your keynote. I said you're welcome. She said but I got to tell you it made me weep. I didn't make you weep, she said. Well, you know your story about your car. You know get it fixed, buy a new one, just kill yourself. She goes.
Speaker 2:I've been having those thoughts my entire life. I thought I was some kind of freak and all alone. And I heard you say that out loud and for the first time in my life I realized I was not in fact alone and I wept. Okay, here's the reason. That is one of the reasons I don't kill myself is that it's sort of like being George Bailey. It's a wonderful life. I've been showing what people's lives would be like if I were not there to speak and reassure them that they are not alone. So if I kill myself, I would take all those people with me who never had a chance to hear me speak and let them know they're not, in fact, alone.
Speaker 2:So that's one of the big reasons I don't because I can't. Friend of mine said you can't live with that, I go. No, I can't die with that, I cannot. I just um that a friend who was in his dad was in AA, uh, raging alcoholic for 40 years, got an AA 20 years sober, sober of the day and he sponsored umpteen people and somebody asked him about 15 year mark, you're going to ever drink again? And he goes. No, and they go. How can you say that? He said because of all the people I've sponsored and all the people I'm going to sponsor, if I dive back into that bottle, they'll dive back in with me and I can't live with that.
Speaker 2:So that would be my wife. He said you're going to kill yourself. No, why I think it's important that they give voice. He makes them give voice out loud to why they're going to stick around.
Speaker 1:So I, yeah, and I appreciate that so much. I mean, that was so power packed as far as what you offered the audience, and it's just a testament of your purpose in life and why you're here and what you're doing is. You can hear the passion in your voice.
Speaker 2:You can hear you can.
Speaker 1:It just radiates through every you know the airwaves. I mean it's amazing. And I, you know, I know for myself. When I was in this situation, talking to someone about them wanting to end their life, you know they were just in so much pain and right now the world is in a lot of pain. People are just experiencing this high level of pain.
Speaker 1:I've recorded a few shows recently where people have talked about, you know, being diagnosed with a medical condition and they feel like that's the only way out. Or the woman that I spoke to overseas being in lockdown and feeling like the only way they can escape. You know this present state that we're in, where we can't do things, that's the only way out. There's just so many examples where people are using that as their way out, and as suicide rates are ratcheting up around the world, I think it's really important that we're able to kind of peel back the layers and say there are other opportunities for you besides taking that avenue. And, as you said, you know, just like asking the questions and taking a deeper dive with the person.
Speaker 1:When you hear of young people right now and I know this week actually and I'll share this because I'm sure this has happened to someone else as well. I actually had a news feed come through that had shared that 11-year-old little girl had hung herself and it didn't successfully work. So she was brain dead but on life support. And now the parents are, you know, now faced with this decision to take her off of life support. This really grabbed me because I really aware that around the world, young people are really struggling with understanding how to process their thoughts, given that there's not a lot of control of what's going on in their life. You know, they're schooling at home or maybe not able to go to school full time because they're halfway in the door, halfway out the door.
Speaker 1:You know all of these things we're in person, we're not Right, right, and then you know it's interesting, because their brain development is in such a state that they don't have the cognitive ability to fully understand things the way that adults do. And adults are struggling. So they're not fully, you know, present as far as able to communicate with children exactly what's going on in the world. And then, given the child's age, you know how much information is too much and how much do you go into the space with them. So there's a lot of layers to all of this with children around the world.
Speaker 1:And I just wonder, you know, besides recognizing the signs of depression in some of these things you speak to, I mean, are there other opportunities for parents that they can, you know, really help their children navigate these troubling times? And how do you, I mean, do you recommend anything Like? Do you recommend parents maybe have their children journal to try to, you know, detox the body or the brain from some of these thoughts? And you know, I mean, what are some suggestions that you may offer up to parents that can help them?
Speaker 2:Well, I would start with, if the child seems to be or you believe the child perhaps is depressed, I would set up a telemedicine appointment and do your best to have them evaluated, because it's, you know, knowledge is power and it defined to figure out. Perhaps. Is it? Is it situational depression? Is it like the depression I live with, organic? Is it something in the DNA? And then, if they are in fact, if it turns out, they are in fact depressed.
Speaker 2:I think, and I give this advice to adults, I think everybody needs self-care plan. We talked about it off the air. I have a TV, a TEDx, I have a keynote called social distancing and staying sane. Don't worry about your mentally ill friends, because those of us are mentally ill and high functioning. We almost all have a self-care plan and other techniques, and mine is diet, exercise, good night sleep, meditation and, in my case, a little medication. And, and I also recommend, a routine. You know everybody's routine has been just blown out of the water. You know the kids aren't going to school or they had school at the dining room table and the parents are home, not going to work and there. So what's lacking?
Speaker 2:I believe they asked a guy who was in the space station for a year about social isolation. You know how, would you how? And he said one word routine. He said we I go to bed same time, I get up same time, eat my meals same time. So I think the family should get together. I would even get a whiteboard. You know, if you have lots of family, like kids and parents and maybe three generations, one household and you know, scheduled out, we all eat at this time, we're gonna do. We're all at dinner table, all the devices are off. You know, and you know this is when we exercise, when we binge watch Netflix, this is when you know Disney plus, so that you, you have to control the things you can control, which people with mental illness learn very quickly because we wake up in it in a, in an uncertain world, whether there's a pandemic or not.
Speaker 2:And something I could share with parents who suspect perhaps their child is living with a mental illness, even if it's just situational depression, is that having a mental illness and a lot of neuro, typical neuro, normal people don't don't quite get. This is like that Greek character Sisyphus. He gave fire to man and the other guys decided his punishment would be he'd roll. He'd have to roll a rock up a hill every day and and the the deal was, if he could get it over the top of the hill then he could retire, but every time you got a close to the top they'd roll back out of the bottom. Having a mental illness is like that. Every morning you wake up and there's a rock in a hill. Some days a rock is small and the hill is not so steep. Some days rock is a boulder and the hill is kill them in jarra. But every day there's a rock and a hill.
Speaker 2:So you know, parents tend not to want anything to be wrong with their children, tend to blame themselves if something does go wrong, like this young woman who tried to hang herself at age 11. I'm sure the parents there's a lot of survivors guilt and wondering what they've done wrong. And you know he, perhaps they did. They were not aware that she was living with them, even situational depression and 11. I have a friend who tried it for 8 and 12 and it bipolar disorder runs in this family and he ended up that that was a diagnosis. But yeah, it's, and it seems to be younger and younger people are are. You know?
Speaker 2:I believe mental health education should begin in middle school, catch em early. Because you catch somebody early with whatever the ailment happens to be, the long term prognosis is far better if you catch those things early and I think me personally I did a TEDx on this called mental with benefits, because everybody I've ever met who wasn't completely dysfunctional, who had a middle illness children, teenagers, adults always had some sort of ability that their peers didn't have. I believe middle illness is actually combination of middle able, this and middle illness and middle ableness. 30 fortune 500 companies now are hiring people on the autism spectrum for their special gift. They have their own, the spectrum, but they do one thing extremely well and 30, including Google, is hiring people on the spectrum because of this one thing they do extremely well.
Speaker 2:So I believe that with children, if they've got a mental illness, do your best to figure out what the mental ableness is and then wrap your arms around that, enhance it, energizes, celebrate it, because I believe that would change the frame for the child. You know you. Know you what I did? The TEDx I said to the audience I'm I. I don't believe that I am broken. I believe I was made this way and it's my job to take, you know the, those blessings that I have, along with the curse of middle illness, and and wrap my arms around that. And and you know, let's say a child has OCD.
Speaker 2:The stem, I think, the IEP, the individual education, but it should truly be individual kids got OCD, so I would the stem program, science, technology, engineering, mathematics, every one of those disciplines, every problem to solve in those disciplines has one right answer, one. And so why not put the young person in that stem program and then steer them on a career path to an industry where they they value precision and attention to detail? And so the young person, if they go in the, in the architecture, engineering, banking, whatever, where they really is to the penny or you know it's very precise, then they're rewarded handsomely for this ability that you know their peers, many of them, don't have. Now, if it's dyslexia, stem is not a good idea because it's just letters and numbers rolling around the page. You know humanities, arts, multi, multi, multi dimensional, complex tasks are fabulous at. So you know that's where I would steer the child, into those, into those curriculum. And I think you should change the, not only curriculum but the teaching method.
Speaker 2:I've got a friend who taught music instruments and he said Frank, you know some of the kids that I taught the ones that had ADD, adhd were the best musicians. The problem was, if you sit them down on a chair and you ask them to play scales for 50 minutes, in the first 10 minutes they get better. The next 40 minutes most their energy is going just to keep their behind in the chair. So he goes on a whim. I bought an egg timer and I said it for 10 minutes. I said to the young person okay, let's play scales for 10 minutes, then we'll do something else. Egg timer goes off. Okay, now let's practice our breathing for 10 minutes. Practice a read. Timer goes off. Now let's practice those two pieces you can be playing at the concert on Saturday.
Speaker 2:Egg timer goes off, he goes. The improvement was amazing because they're not having to spend all that energy to sit still, because they know 10 minutes on something else, 10 minutes on something else, which I thought was brilliant. So I think that that is a message. We need to make the individual education plan truly. I mean down to the point where I don't think every six-year-old belongs in first grade, you know, in every seven-year-old in second grade. I think again, we should adjust to fit the child's abilities yeah, and that probably is in the distant future.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure you know. It's not very fast, but you know this conversation around our children.
Speaker 1:I am also wondering too, you know, is this something that we teach the children how to recognize this within our, you know, our social circles? And the reason I bring this up is because I know for my own children, when they were going through middle school and even high school, they knew of someone who was in the bathroom and they were cutting or they were, you know, doing self-harm to their bodies. And it's such a difficult stage of life because, you know, there's so much emphasis on the differences that are made to feel like that they're bad or because of their differences, or you know, those highlighted differences, and it just perpetuates the self-awareness of, maybe those internal thoughts around why they are feeling different. Right, they're being highlighted by the peers. So I just wonder, you know, if this is something that should be more mainstream in conversations among the middle schoolers and the high schoolers, like this is how you can recognize some things in your peers so that they are also alert to how to help one another, because a lot of times it's like this 11 year old that we were talking about earlier nobody had any idea, no idea.
Speaker 1:So for those parents that are grieving and, you know, had to pull the life support plug on their daughter. I mean, they're just shell shocked and they're going through a tremendous amount of agony and grief and, to your point, you know that survivors guilt and all of these, these different things that they're probably questioning. Looking back in time, you know, is is part of this educating the children as well as the adults, and how to recognize the signs and are they capable of handling this kind of information. I'm not sure what are your thoughts around that?
Speaker 2:well, I think if you make it age appropriate let's say that the middle school where the 11-year-old attended the one that is on life support what should be done is they should have someone come in for both teachers, staff and children different sessions and do what's called suicide postvention, because everyone has questions, every adult probably has survivor's guilt for not spotting it, and so you need someone to come in and decode what happened. And then, once you're done with the postvention, then I would say then you begin with the prevention part of the sessions so it doesn't happen again. Or if it does look like it's going to happen, the young people will be able to recognize the signs and symptoms, because oftentimes it's a child who saves another child. I've got a friend whose daughter was in her early teens and one of her peers in her class was doing I think she was cutting or burning some sort of non-lethal self-harm but also was making dangerous noises that she was thinking about ending her life. And so my friend's daughter marched down to the school counselor and said look, I think whatever her name was is seriously considering suicide. And that's the reason that that young woman who was considering suicide is alive today because one of her peers stepped up and took responsibility and marched down to the counselor's office.
Speaker 2:So I think if we educate again, beginning in middle school, at age appropriate, you don't want to trigger anybody in middle school. I mean, we teach them about all sorts of other things, you know tobacco cessation and drugs and alcohol and you know, and this sex education. And so I think, at the appropriate level, and I think every parent should take what's called mentalhealthfirstaid, mentalhealthfirstaidorg, it's an eight hour class, they throw in lunch, it costs anywhere from $0 to, I think, $25. And it's a, and there's a youth one and an adult one. So if you're a parent, you have young children, you take the youth one and they give you a binder with all, with every it seemed like every mental illness possible, you know, from simple depression through non-lethal self harm, like cutting, burning, biting, to suicide, and it has signs and symptoms. And then again, what to say when I say what to do and not do, then resources. So, and finally, there's an outfit called NAMI, national Alliance, middle Illness.
Speaker 2:In AMI They've got a chapter pretty much in every county in the country and I've got a friend whose son is schizoaffective, had lived with schizoaffective disorder and it was tearing the family to pieces. And he found NAMI, or NAMI in AMI, national Alliance Middle Illness, and they have a 12 week class for families, parents, on schizoaffective disorder. How do you? You know what do you say, what don't you say, what do you do, what don't you do? How do you find resources? And they have family to family counseling. So you get families together who have a child, a loved one, with schizoaffective disorder and it saved the family and probably the young man.
Speaker 2:And here's the best part about the National Alliance Middle Illness, nami, everything they do is free, it's all volunteer driven. They have a couple of employees, executive director and an executive assistant, but everything else it's all volunteer and everything they do is absolutely free. So it's, I think, if parents educate themselves. You know, nobody wants to think their child is less than perfect. But and think about this, if parents took these, took the first day middle health first day class, and let's say they're driving carpool and they've got more than one child, more than their children, in the car and they hear something or see the sign of something that they've learned to recognize, it's called gatekeeper training. You're standing at the gate, you're watching people come and go and you're as they're going, you're paying attention to everybody coming and going and it's your job to spot the signs and symptoms, the danger signs. You know the danger symptoms and then know what to do.
Speaker 1:That's incredible and part of when you were speaking. I'm also wondering the challenges that parents are having right now because, with the homeschooling, as you know, schools are not fully open and parents there's a lot of parents and I don't know that the discussion around this is really as open as it probably should be there's a lot of parents that are forced to leave their children to, you know, be home schooling themselves while they're off to work. And I'm not saying you know that they're leaving them inappropriately, but you know you have a lot of kids who are home all day, you know, on their own and when they're not in that social setting of school and they're more isolated in the setting of being home. I'm just wondering, how do we, how do we get in front of this? I mean, is this really, is this really a conversation where you know parents try to talk more to your children, try to get more, you know, in the space of understanding where they are with their mental health?
Speaker 1:Because, as you say, right now, you know there is a situational thing that's happening around the globe where everyone is experiencing grief and everyone has, you know, a loss that they're experiencing, but also there's this trauma that's happening because we're constantly being bombarded by the negativity of what we're hearing around the world with the news. So you know the kids are also feeling the effects of that. So I just wonder, you know, as part of this process, is this something that really parents need to shoulder a little bit more to make sure that they're not losing the connectedness you know to the outside world, because we are social beings?
Speaker 1:we're not we're not getting that as much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know Zoom. I can imagine what the world would be like with a pandemic, without Zoom and Skype and FaceTime. I mean, I, just you and I wouldn't be chatting, or we might be chatting on the phone. But not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you have to do. Dr Fauci was on the news. I was listening to him talk about Thanksgiving and he recommends that you just keep it to the family unit. And he said that's what we're going to do. We're going to cook a Thanksgiving turkey and all the trimmings and we're going to sit down at the dinner table with the computer monitor and all the extended families going to be, they're going to zoom in and we're all going to, you know. So we're going to say the blessing and we're all going to dig in at the same time, just as if we were there, you know, and hopefully have that conversation, that cross talk. It won't be, you know, it won't be like it would be if we could all get together. But, you know, make the effort so people don't feel quite so, you know, so isolated. And they said, yes, I think on campus I heard not a Thanksgiving but a Friendsgiving, and don't go home for Thanksgiving. And, you know, drag the virus to your older, you know, your, perhaps your grandparents, just stay on campus. But the problem that is, you know, is it some colleges are going to go home for Thanksgiving and you're not coming back. We're going to do this at a distance. So, yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2:I think this whole generation is going to be scarred by this. You know it's going to. It's going to define their generation. You know, as the Vietnam War defined the generation just prior to mine, you know, in 911 and so forth, you know every generation has these cataclysmic things that define. You know that partially defines their generation. I think this, sadly, this is going to be. This is going to be now, as a comedian, I've said the. If there's anything funny in this, it would be when children come along and they're you know, the people that are now parents become grandparents and their grandchild says to grandpa, grandpa, I have one question. Yes, son, why do you have a lifetime supply of toilet paper and the shit out back and then they have to explain to them that, well, that's what everybody did, you know, with the and, by the way, it happened again here in Oregon when the governor said we're shutting down tomorrow. She said it on Friday.
Speaker 2:My wife works in a grocery store and, man, the panic buying began again. The lines out the door at Costco were just apparently amazing. You know it's again. I think it's going to have. You know there's little. This thing's going to leave scars on on. You know the people who have gone through it. It's, you know the recession plus the pandemic is going to. Yeah, the world will never be quite the same again, and that's that's why I think you know if you might, might, if someone's strong in their religion you know strong in Christ or whatever. I'm not particularly religious, but if I know somebody struggling and I know they're strong in Christ, then I've leveraged that. I would say to them well, look, have you prayed about this? Have you spoken to your minister about this?
Speaker 1:Well, what do you?
Speaker 2:say, you and I and the minister do a Zoom call, let's form a little team and see if we can't nail this down, you know, and see if we can't figure this out together. So I recommend, if there's, if somebody is struggling, you know, a mental health professional, another family member, a scout leader, a coach, anyone that the child has respect for and that cares about the child, you know, form a team. You know let's, you know we're all in this together. Let's, let's. If we're in this together, let's get it together and leverage whatever relationships the young person has with you know, with adults who are, you know, positive and positive thinking and you know, and want to improve the situation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and I think for a lot of adults, you know it's a difficult place to be, to go within yourself into that space and really like go way down and pull out that part of you that's afraid, because you do face the sphere of I don't want to mess this up, I don't want to do this wrong, I don't want to, you know, say the wrong words or do the wrong thing or you know so. So that part of you as an adult, I mean, I think it's so. It's so important this conversation, conversation we're having, because exactly what you were saying it's like know how to talk about this and use some of the resources and tools that you suggested. I mean you've given some great resources. You know the mental health first aidorg you had mentioned. I mean there's so many things that you've mentioned during our conversation that are so impactful.
Speaker 1:But I think it's also important that you know the adults remember that this person that you're working with, you know, even if it's another adult, like they do have a purpose to be here, just like you do, frank, and remind me, reminding that person that you have a reason to be here is so powerful because they literally could take this situation and turn it inside out, like you've done, and just change the world, because we have no idea how many people are going to be changed just having this conversation. You and I so, and you know even my own personal story. Like I have no idea how many people will be impacted by my personal story, which is why I'm so passionate about getting in front of everybody as well, and I just you know it's really interesting because every show that I do, I asked my guest speaker if I found your earth angel feather on the ground, and they picked it up. What would your message to the world be? What would your message be?
Speaker 2:Start the conversation. And that's brave, yeah, brave. Step out of your comfort zone, because we know that eight out of 10, nine out of 10, we can save by simply by doing. When I, when I close out my TEDx and my key notes, I say this the good news is, you can make a difference, you can save a life, and you can often do it by doing something as simple as what we're doing right now, and that is starting a conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's absolutely beautiful, and every single person that's on this planet has a message for the world and every single person on this planet has a purpose in a reason to be here. And, frank, this conversation has been astounding. Oh, it's so necessary right now with the way everything is. And the other day, someone said to me you know, it's amazing because you're literally walking into this dark space with people and, you know, pulling them out into the light. And I really didn't.
Speaker 1:I really didn't let that resonate when he first said it and as I've let it, you know, simmer, it's like wow, I guess I am, but it's, you know, it's. It's. It's impactful because, as a global humanitarian effort right now, we need this conversation to be heard as far and as wide as possible, and I encourage the audience if you're listening and you know this can help someone, please, please, please, spread this message, get this out to as many people as you can. If you have a school system or education system that could use this as a resource, we encourage you to just get this message out far and wide. Is there anything else you'd like to offer the audience, frank, before we go?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you put this in the show notes and I do this every time I keynote. I put myself on number up on the screen and I tell the audience look, here's the deal. If you're suicidal, call the suicidal. If you're in a prevention, the lifeline or text the text lines and for once I'm born. If you're just having a really bad day, call a crazy person. Here's my phone number because, as somebody with mental illness, I'm less likely to be judgmental, more likely just to listen and cosine.
Speaker 2:Whatever difficulty they're they're going through, welcome to it's. 858405, 5653858455653. And, like said, you're welcome to call people call sometimes it's about themselves, sometimes it's about a loved one, they, you know, they got a question where to find resources. But yeah, it's, it's. And I would recommend, by the way, if you reach out to someone and you help them say, on a difficult day, I would, a day or so later, reach out again Just to let just check in, to let them know you care. Again, this is not therapy. I'm not a clinician. All Catherine and I are here to do is to plant seeds of hope.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I am so filled with gratitude for your time today, frank, and sitting here with me and having this conversation, and I Encourage everyone to just, you know, look out After your fellow humans, wherever they are in the space, that you're connected with them, and just really be in tune to where they're at and Do the best you can to wrap your arms around them and love on them and stay connected with them, because it's so important, frank. Thank you so so much. It's really been a pleasure.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's all we have time for today. This is Catherine Daniels, with retreat to peace, reminding you to live your authentic life with peace. And, as always, retreat to peace. We'll see you next time. So welcome back and, holy moly, was that incredible what Frank just shared with the audience and All of his knowledge. I know for a lot of us. There are people in our life right now that are really struggling and and it was really vitally important for me to have Frank on the show sharing with the audience things that are really impactful and powerful to help one another.
Speaker 1:I Don't take our conversation around suicide lightly. I know people who have personally been affected by this in their life. I know the scars that it leaves and and it just really wanted to do my part to put this out into the world to help everyone. Part of the reason I'm coming back on is offline. Frank and I had a really interesting conversation around where we are today, what's happening today, and he had shared with me something that I thought was really profound, something that took me a Back a little bit in regards to my understanding and what I thought Was actually happening, but what I realized was not correct. So he had shared with me that the population of people that are most greatly affected in today's world right now is actually our young adults. He had shared with me that 11 year old girls, especially, are the population of greatest concern. I had shared with him that I have an 11 year old niece, and that does sound some alarming alarm bells for me personally, and I just asked him what it was around this demographic that Was causing this, and he had stated that the experts in the field are trying to figure it out. They don't actually know, but one of the things that they attribute to this is that there is a 40% decline in socialization with their peers. Now I have a friend who has a, a young girl in this age group, and one of the things that she had expressed to me was how important it was that she continued to allow socialization, of course cautiously, given the state of the world the way it is, but if it came down to Whether or not there was a socialization or having dinner, it was chosen that the socialization was of higher priority and she would have dinner when she was done or later in the day or when she was hungry, and some of the rules that had always been adhered to went to the wayside. So I just share this with you because I think it's really important that people know and and there has been a shift from young adult males to the young adult girls, females. So please be aware of the people in your life, keep checks on them, and especially the children, and, again, just open the conversation. Like Frank said, open the conversation among your, your families, among your friends, and just continue to persevere.
Speaker 1:And if you're interested in subscribing to the email list, the ongoing Healing toolbox that is individual and unique to each person Please jump on to wwwretreat2peacenet and sign up for the email list. Get connected and Get connected to the community. There's a lot of people that really need support right now, and the healing toolbox is something that is accessible for free and Will allow you to gain some tools to help your own inner peace as far as your healing process. So thank you so much for being with us today. It's greatly appreciated. And again, sign up for retreat2peacenet, our email, and I Look forward to seeing you next time having a conversation with our guest and, as always, retreat to peace. This is Katherine Daniels. Have a great day you.